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@adam_prince-of-eternia Sometimes surprising things can happen when reinventing stuff completely. Smallville reinvented the Superman Mythos as a teen soap, it was beloved and ran forever. Clark never wore a costume (until the final scene).
What I meant with for girls is that teen drama can be very appealing to girls, (the original target audience for She-Ra), even though it’s not appealing to you. Of course, you seem to be a very important arbiter.
It does not have to be appealing to you. Maybe you’d be denying others a show they could really like. Which could carry the brand further.
Stuff changes when it goes into production, too.
I just find your negativity disappointing.
Of course everyone thinks they are right, and know better than all the other fans.
@adam_prince-of-eternia Sometimes surprising things can happen when reinventing stuff completely. Smallville reinvented the Superman Mythos as a teen soap, it was beloved and ran forever. Clark never wore a costume (until the final scene).What I meant with for girls is that teen drama can be very appealing to girls, (the original target audience for She-Ra), even though it’s not appealing to you. Of course, you seem to be a very important arbiter.
It does not have to be appealing to you. Maybe you’d be denying others a show they could really like. Which could carry the brand further.
Stuff changes when it goes into production, too.
I just find your negativity disappointing.Of course everyone thinks they are right, and know better than all the other fans.
Smallville was set before Clark became Superman. Of course, he did not wear the cosutme until the final episode. However, Clark was still Kal-El, the last son of Krypton, who was found and adopted by Jonathan and Martha Kent, and raised in Smalliville. He was still romantically interested in Lana Lang and Lois Lane, and friends with both Pete Ross and Jimmy Olsen. He still has a cousin, Kara Zor-El, and his antagonist is still Lex Luthor. Need I go on?
Now, strip away all of that, and have Clark Kent be a high school student, not in Smallville, with a completely different cast of supporting characters, and no super powers. Market the series as "Superman," even though the only allusion to the intellectual property is the occasional mysterious dream that Clark was a hero in another life, that he is distracted thinking about while his friends are discussing their interpersonal relationships. And that would be this She-Ra series.
If you think that is a formula for success that will "carry the brand further" instead of running it off in a ditch, then I definitely know better than you do. If that makes me the arbiter, then I will gladly hold the title.
@adam_prince-of-eternia Are we really at the point of “I know better than you?” Everyone thinks they’re an arbiter. 🙄
I guess we shall see if this show will happen, and if it will happen exactly like you say. Stuff can change, surprises happen, I have hope, some people don’t. It’s unfortunate.
K I’m done here.
@adam_prince-of-eternia Are we really at the point of “I know better than you?” Everyone thinks they’re an arbiter. 🙄I guess we shall see if this show will happen, and if it will happen exactly like you say. Stuff can change, surprises happen, I have hope, some people don’t. It’s unfortunate.
K I’m done here.
We were at that point on the first page when you were attempting to chastise people with first-hand knowledge of the treatment that you, yourself, have not read. So yeah, I think you are done here.
As I stated in my first post in this thread, unless the new writer is writing a new treatment, then there is not much hope for this.
@adam_prince-of-eternia … so you say yourself, it could be completely rewritten 🤡 So what’s there to fight about?
So much can change. And yeah, we might not like it. It might actually be for teen girls. Or it could morph into something really fun for everyone!
Perhaps you remember the ****storms during SPoPs, MOTU:R, etc ? You’re that dude now. Very unappealing. Don’t be that dude!
You want a gold star for knowing an early treatment ? Here ya go ⭐️ Now you can dial down the arrogance.
Enjoy your evening 😘
For the Honor of Grayskull!
@adam_prince-of-eternia … so you say yourself, it could be completely rewritten 🤡 So what’s there to fight about?So much can change. And yeah, we might not like it. It might actually be for teen girls. Or it could morph into something really fun for everyone!
Perhaps you remember the ****storms during SPoPs, MOTU:R, etc ? You’re that dude now. Very unappealing. Don’t be that dude!
You want a gold star for knowing an early treatment ? Here ya go ⭐️ Now you can dial down the arrogance.
Enjoy your evening 😘
For the Honor of Grayskull!
The difference is that the outrage regarding Masters of the Universe: Revelation and She-Ra and the Princesses of Power was manufactured by content creators for engagement, by people who are not familiar with either property, and who had not actually viewed either series.
With the She-Ra series at Amazon, the call is coming from inside the house, from lifelong fans who have first-hand knowledge of the treatment.
You wanted so badly to be able to dismiss any criticism of the project by categorizing the critic as a rightwing reactionary, and it blew up in your face. And instead of exercising some humility and self-reflection, you are doubling-down to try and save face. If you think that is going to be an effective strategy, I do not think you are going to be successful.
I mean, what do I know, but She-Ra would be lucky if it becomes as successful as Riverdale. But yeah, familiar chorus, “if it’s not for me and middle aged dudes, it should not exist!” Never mind She-Ra was invented for girls.
I would be perfectly fine if it became like Riverdale. That show was fun and made Archie relevant again.
"I would be perfectly fine if a comic about teenage relationships in an American high school was made into a show about teenage relationships in an American high school!" Wow, groundbreaking. It is almost like there is a difference between changing the tone, and changing the property.
"But it was fun and made it relevant again!" What good does it do to make it "fun" and "relevant" if it is completely unrecognizeable? If you change everything about yourself to be popular, then you are not the same person people liked before.
"I would be perfectly fine If I get to decide what opinions are right."
Don't pay him no mind @cosmic @therealbatman
If you set your goals ridiculously high and it's a failure, you will fail above everyone else's success. -James Cameron
@therealbatman How can what I assume is a fan of MOTU/POP even remotely think that's a good idea?
I'm pretty confident I'm going to regret sticking my nose in, but there are positions here I just don't understand.
First up, I'm not 100% why we're arguing about this series being like Riverdale - the only synopsis I've seen of it (from the Variety article) says it's "an epic fantasy series about an orphaned young woman who leads a revolution to save her planet from annihilation." Obviously I could have missed something somewhere saying it's going to be about Adora in high school dreaming about being She-Ra - if so, would you mind posting a link? I'm keen to read more before making my mind up what I think.
Secondly, and probably more importantly, I don't get why it seems to matter so much that everybody agree that a Riverdale-style She-Ra series would be a bad thing? I've never seen Riverdale but it sounds fun, and it ran for seven years, and it was popular, so... surely if a new She-Ra series taps into whatever made Riverdale a success, then that's a win? And yes, no doubt it won't be 100% faithful to the source material, but I'd wager that everyone here has a different opinion of what a faithful adaptation would look like anyway. Personally, I lean towards the sillier side of the property - the Filmation route rather than the early minicomics, for example - but I wouldn't dream of saying that someone who wanted a grimmer and darker version of MOTU wasn't a fan, just because they prefer a different style.
And yes, I know a version where Adora was in high school on Earth would be very different - perhaps more than a different style, perhaps a whole new beast. It probably wouldn't be what I'd choose if I had control over the property. But I don't, and hey, it might be fun. And if it's not, then I can rather cleverly not watch it, and wait until another version rolls around that is more to my taste.
My best guess is if this is made for teens and the setting is Earth, only more open minded people should give it a shot. If it follows POP or SPOP formula I am worried the budget will be lacking for it to look great? There are several things that could go wrong... Do I prefer them trying over it not getting made at all? Yes, yes I do actually.
Masterverse wishlist:
Catra 2018 (season 4)
He-Man 2002 (Snake Armor)
King Hissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss 2002
She-Ra 2018 (season 5)
Skeletor 2002
The issue with these things is appealing to what the majority of the fanbase wants, not those on the fringes. If the minority angle is the aim the quality needs to be through the roof. Nobody is taking chances at the consumer end now, there's far too many attention demands for that. Meanwhile Netflix and Amazon cancel shows at a rate of knots!
Folks can scream 'toxicity!' all they like, if next to nobody watches the show because it's too far removed from the original concept the show is dead whether it's good, bad or middling. These shows cost hundreds of millions of dollars and also greatly affect the next project.
So in this case, a Riverdale aspect is just not a good idea. A home run is essential, studios and more importantly the majority of fans aren't tolerating failure in the current climate.
All fair points, and I certainly agree that given the cancelfest going on at the streamers at the mo, then a series has to be both excellent and attract a large audience to survive - and even that's probably not enough, since as you say, these things are very expensive to produce.
Where I'd counter is on the fanbase points - you say fans may choose not to watch the show because it's too far removed from the original concept, which is true. But we don't know what level of new audience the show might pick up if it's taking a different route, and I'd wager that a good 95% of existing She-Ra fans would at least try the new show. Even if it's just to hate-watch.
Basically, I reckon that if the show is going this route - and I still don't know whether it is - I would suspect that the thinking is that to survive (and reach that next project) then the property needs to pick up new fans. Ideally, of course, without losing the old ones, which is a challenging balancing act.
All fair points, and I certainly agree that given the cancelfest going on at the streamers at the mo, then a series has to be both excellent and attract a large audience to survive - and even that's probably not enough, since as you say, these things are very expensive to produce.
Where I'd counter is on the fanbase points - you say fans may choose not to watch the show because it's too far removed from the original concept, which is true. But we don't know what level of new audience the show might pick up if it's taking a different route, and I'd wager that a good 95% of existing She-Ra fans would at least try the new show. Even if it's just to hate-watch.
Basically, I reckon that if the show is going this route - and I still don't know whether it is - I would suspect that the thinking is that to survive (and reach that next project) then the property needs to pick up new fans. Ideally, of course, without losing the old ones, which is a challenging balancing act.
My take is if 'Riverdale' is where we're headed it's for budgetary reasons, which means fans wanting fight scenes in mad locations are gonna be disappointed. And that's probably the majority. I'm reminded of the 1987 masters movie complaints about the Earth scenes.
But I suppose what it comes down to is if the fanbase isn't big enough to start with (if it was there's no argument, really) the last thing you should do is take risks? Story-wise there's very little justification for Earth scenes with She-Ra (or the upcoming MOTU movie, really).
I mean all this could be mitigated anyway by doing three episodes or whatever is needed to make the budget work. But streamers refuse to look at their own business model and we continually get 8-10 episodes stretched to breaking point that cost a fortune.
All fair points, and I certainly agree that given the cancelfest going on at the streamers at the mo, then a series has to be both excellent and attract a large audience to survive - and even that's probably not enough, since as you say, these things are very expensive to produce.
Where I'd counter is on the fanbase points - you say fans may choose not to watch the show because it's too far removed from the original concept, which is true. But we don't know what level of new audience the show might pick up if it's taking a different route, and I'd wager that a good 95% of existing She-Ra fans would at least try the new show. Even if it's just to hate-watch.
Basically, I reckon that if the show is going this route - and I still don't know whether it is - I would suspect that the thinking is that to survive (and reach that next project) then the property needs to pick up new fans. Ideally, of course, without losing the old ones, which is a challenging balancing act.
My take is if 'Riverdale' is where we're headed it's for budgetary reasons, which means fans wanting fight scenes in mad locations are gonna be disappointed. And that's probably the majority. I'm reminded of the 1987 masters movie complaints about the Earth scenes.
But I suppose what it comes down to is if the fanbase isn't big enough to start with (if it was there's no argument, really) the last thing you should do is take risks? Story-wise there's very little justification for Earth scenes with She-Ra (or the upcoming MOTU movie, really).
I mean all this could be mitigated anyway by doing three episodes or whatever is needed to make the budget work. But streamers refuse to look at their own business model and we continually get 8-10 episodes stretched to breaking point that cost a fortune.
You struck the nail on the head in regards to the size of fanbase. I do not find it far-fetched to suggest the current She-Ra fanbase was small. Awareness is higher due to her relationship with He-Man, but her eighties show and her toys were no where near the success of her twin brother. Some would argue it was not a success at all. Nostalgia can alter the way we look back at things.
She-Ra's low budget animation reboot didn't light the world on fire either although it did excite the lgbtq community for its inclusion. Five seasons were not indicative of success. All the episodes were made at once and what used to constitute one season was broken into five. So a new iteration could be a good thing and can lead to more traditional fare if it takes off.
"Frankenstein" by Mary Shelley is one of my favourite novels and her story has been twisted in more ways then one can recall spanning from comedies to musicals. Some are surprisingly interesting takes. Some are atrociously awful. I welcome them all.
If you set your goals ridiculously high and it's a failure, you will fail above everyone else's success. -James Cameron
Yup, I was wondering what the true size of the PoP fanbase actually is earlier, though the last thing I would do is try to subvert expectations in the current climate. The days of the shill press faking it until a show makes it are overAll fair points, and I certainly agree that given the cancelfest going on at the streamers at the mo, then a series has to be both excellent and attract a large audience to survive - and even that's probably not enough, since as you say, these things are very expensive to produce.
Where I'd counter is on the fanbase points - you say fans may choose not to watch the show because it's too far removed from the original concept, which is true. But we don't know what level of new audience the show might pick up if it's taking a different route, and I'd wager that a good 95% of existing She-Ra fans would at least try the new show. Even if it's just to hate-watch.
Basically, I reckon that if the show is going this route - and I still don't know whether it is - I would suspect that the thinking is that to survive (and reach that next project) then the property needs to pick up new fans. Ideally, of course, without losing the old ones, which is a challenging balancing act.
My take is if 'Riverdale' is where we're headed it's for budgetary reasons, which means fans wanting fight scenes in mad locations are gonna be disappointed. And that's probably the majority. I'm reminded of the 1987 masters movie complaints about the Earth scenes.
But I suppose what it comes down to is if the fanbase isn't big enough to start with (if it was there's no argument, really) the last thing you should do is take risks? Story-wise there's very little justification for Earth scenes with She-Ra (or the upcoming MOTU movie, really).
I mean all this could be mitigated anyway by doing three episodes or whatever is needed to make the budget work. But streamers refuse to look at their own business model and we continually get 8-10 episodes stretched to breaking point that cost a fortune.
You struck the nail on the head in regards to the size of fanbase. I do not find it far-fetched to suggest the current She-Ra fanbase was small. Awareness is higher due to her relationship with He-Man, but her eighties show and her toys were no where near the success of her twin brother. Some would argue it was not a success at all. Nostalgia can alter the way we look back at things.
She-Ra's low budget animation reboot didn't light the world on fire either although it did excite the lgbtq community for its inclusion. Five seasons were not indicative of success. All the episodes were made at once and what used to constitute one season was broken into five. So a new iteration could be a good thing and can lead to more traditional fare if it takes off.
"Frankenstein" by Mary Shelley is one of my favourite novels and her story has been twisted in more ways then one can recall spanning from comedies to musicals. Some are surprisingly interesting takes. Some are atrociously awful. I welcome them all.
Yup, I was wondering what the true size of the PoP fanbase actually is earlier, though the last thing I would do is try to subvert expectations in the current climate. The days of the shill press faking it until a show makes it are overAll fair points, and I certainly agree that given the cancelfest going on at the streamers at the mo, then a series has to be both excellent and attract a large audience to survive - and even that's probably not enough, since as you say, these things are very expensive to produce.
Where I'd counter is on the fanbase points - you say fans may choose not to watch the show because it's too far removed from the original concept, which is true. But we don't know what level of new audience the show might pick up if it's taking a different route, and I'd wager that a good 95% of existing She-Ra fans would at least try the new show. Even if it's just to hate-watch.
Basically, I reckon that if the show is going this route - and I still don't know whether it is - I would suspect that the thinking is that to survive (and reach that next project) then the property needs to pick up new fans. Ideally, of course, without losing the old ones, which is a challenging balancing act.
My take is if 'Riverdale' is where we're headed it's for budgetary reasons, which means fans wanting fight scenes in mad locations are gonna be disappointed. And that's probably the majority. I'm reminded of the 1987 masters movie complaints about the Earth scenes.
But I suppose what it comes down to is if the fanbase isn't big enough to start with (if it was there's no argument, really) the last thing you should do is take risks? Story-wise there's very little justification for Earth scenes with She-Ra (or the upcoming MOTU movie, really).
I mean all this could be mitigated anyway by doing three episodes or whatever is needed to make the budget work. But streamers refuse to look at their own business model and we continually get 8-10 episodes stretched to breaking point that cost a fortune.
You struck the nail on the head in regards to the size of fanbase. I do not find it far-fetched to suggest the current She-Ra fanbase was small. Awareness is higher due to her relationship with He-Man, but her eighties show and her toys were no where near the success of her twin brother. Some would argue it was not a success at all. Nostalgia can alter the way we look back at things.
She-Ra's low budget animation reboot didn't light the world on fire either although it did excite the lgbtq community for its inclusion. Five seasons were not indicative of success. All the episodes were made at once and what used to constitute one season was broken into five. So a new iteration could be a good thing and can lead to more traditional fare if it takes off.
"Frankenstein" by Mary Shelley is one of my favourite novels and her story has been twisted in more ways then one can recall spanning from comedies to musicals. Some are surprisingly interesting takes. Some are atrociously awful. I welcome them all.
What are the delineations between subverting expectations and attempting a different take on a character?
If you set your goals ridiculously high and it's a failure, you will fail above everyone else's success. -James Cameron
What are the delineations between subverting expectations and attempting a different take on a character?
In my mind there's a vast difference. So for example subverting expectations is 'Here's an epic battle between He-Man and Skeletor, basically continuing on from Filmation! Oh no, wait, they're both dead!".
A different take on a given character could be Hordak in his younger years for instance, or just deciding Adam is a distraction and therefore the Royals too, and getting right into the action. So long as it's handled with respect and dedication, nobody minds a new take.
In either scenario the fanbase needs to be respected but it's almost always better to have a really good plot over twists that are rarely as clever as intended.